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Do some couples tend to produce boys and others girls?

  • 26 Jan 2025 8:18 AM
    Reply # 13454976 on 13446689

    I hate to spoil people's fun but maybe there are better uses for all those analytical resources. Including brains

    Apparently it takes 100s of 1000s of coin tosses to "prove' bias 

  • 8 Jan 2025 6:57 PM
    Reply # 13447579 on 13447120

    I'd have thought we could get some way with this using the Australian census data.

    CCTP = 1 gives us biological and adopted of both adults (adopted is not ideal) and we can select children in families with three or more children and look at the first two, or all except the last, for the reasons discussed above.

    Would this help?

    See Child type (CTPP) | Australian Bureau of Statistics

    Ideally, we'd want to remove adopted children from the study, and we might want to consider how we count identical twin births.  It's also not entirely clear how people report their sex (SEXP) in the census.

    Also of interest: Trends in Population Sex Ratios May be Explained by Changes in the Frequencies of Polymorphic Alleles of a Sex Ratio Gene | Evolutionary BiologyDoes having boys or girls run in families? New study says it’s down to chance | CNN

    Last modified: 8 Jan 2025 8:31 PM | Peter Summers
  • 7 Jan 2025 3:21 PM
    Reply # 13447120 on 13446689

    Fascinating question

    Sorry for commenting it seems like something that is almost certainly true but unprovable

    Sorry for stepping outside of statistics

    Last modified: 7 Jan 2025 3:26 PM | Duncan Lowes
  • 7 Jan 2025 8:36 AM
    Reply # 13446996 on 13446689

    See https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/18/health/boys-girls-run-in-families-wellness-scn/index.html, describing results from a study that examined the entire population of Sweden since 1932.

    “We can’t rule out the possibility that extreme environmental events, like famine, could affect offspring sex ratios. But we can say for sure that the variability of environments that Swedes born after 1932 experienced did not affect their having boys or girls,” Zietsch said.
    Link to Royal Society B 2020 paper

    See also the Orzak and Hardy Commentary on Zietsch et al paper
    ". . . this absence of inherited variation is not evidence against the claim that Düsing-Fisher frequency-dependent selection has influenced the human sex ratio. Nonetheless, if and when this process of natural selection has influenced the human sex ratio remains unresolved.

    Perhaps take a look at the example on Pages 95 - 99 (Subsection 2.3.1) of our text "A Practical Guide to Data Analysis Using R".  Then text of Chapter 2 (as well as Chapters 1 & 3) is on the web, and you can find it by clicking here.

    "The dataset qra::malesINfirst12, from hospital records in Saxony in the nineteenth century, gives the number of males among the first 12 children of family size 13 in 6115 families. The probability that a child will be male varies, within and/or between families. (The 13th child is ignored to counter the effect of families non-randomly stopping when a desired gender is reached.)"

    The code is available at https://jhmaindonald.github.io/Rcode/ch2.html.
    This suggests a small increase from binomial variation.  See however the Lindsey & Altham reference, and the details there of other models that those authors try. These authors point out issues with that dataset, including some likely duplication. 

    There must surely be other such data sets about.  Extra-binomial variation will of course be harder to detect where, as in  most countries in the past century or so, family sizes are much smaller.

    References for this dataset include:

    Edwards, A. W. F. (1958). An analysis of Geissler's data on the human sex ratio. Annals of human genetics, 23(1), 6-15.

    Geissler, A. (1889) Beiträge zur Frage des Geschlechtsverhältnisses der Geborenen. Z. Köngl. Sächs. Statist. Bur., 35, 1±24.

    Lindsey, J. K., & Altham, P. M. E. (1998). Analysis of the human sex ratio by using overdispersion models. Journal of the Royal Statistical Society: Series C (Applied Statistics), 47(1), 149-157.
    (available online: Link to pdf). 

    Lindsey & Altham draw attention to problems with the data. Some families likely appear more than once.


    Last modified: 7 Jan 2025 2:37 PM | John Maindonald
  • 6 Jan 2025 7:00 PM
    Message # 13446689

    I am at the stage of my life when grandchildren are appearing and people ask you to guess the sex. I could answer that “my family produces boys so you will also.” Is it true though that pr(male) varies over the population (or over time)? With simple assumptions, this is empirically detectable. If some of the population only produce girls and the rest only boys then we would see this clearly in the data. The overall population distribution would be over-dispersed.

    You may or may not want to read my notes below, but my main question is whether any members know the answer to the key question in the title. If you have a few key references that would be great. Or perhaps you could direct me to a colleague who finds this issue of interest.

    Here is my unresearched thinking:

    Null hypothesis would be that pr(male)=p is the same for all mothers/couples. This is almost certainly slightly greater than 0.5 and may differ across age (evidence suggests not) but even if it did, we could then define p to be the integral with respect to the standard age distribution of mothers.

    The data will be the sequence of males and females born to all mothers in a population. The data sets will be large. Gender order will potentially be important, see below.

    The number of sons and daughters a woman has depends on

    • Desire/propensity/ability to have total number τ of children. This will be determined by factors such as economics, physical limitations, promiscuity and other factors that need not be modelled (but could be).
    • Parental desire for a particular sex or combination of sexes
      • Primogeniture: Mother/parents will keep having children until they get a male. This will not affect the proportion of males in the population because of the martingale stopping rule property. But you could see it in in the sequence of data (for instance last child is male) and estimate how many use this rule. Proportion of population who desire males can be μ. Proportion who desire a daughter could be δ.
      • Gender mix: Will stop once you have both sexes. This would lead to a under dispersion of we condition on family size=2 (see first link above). Proportion of population could be B (for both). There is evidence that this is the case. Conditional on a family of 2, there is an over-abundance of mixed sex.

    Parents’ stopping rules based on gender make this interesting and complex. So, at the very least there are parameters p, τ,  μ, δ, B. This looks like a really interesting classical inference problem to me. What distribution would be convenient for heterogeneity of pr(male)=p to define the alternative? What would be a LR test? Is it largely a test of over-dispersion relative to the expected distribution under the estimated parental stopping rule? Is it tractable?

    I fear it might be difficult to test if p is constant with much power since: if half the population want daughters and the other half sons, you will end up with over-dispersion, which is the same general pattern you expect if p is not constant. But maybe everything can be untangled with enough data and the data set will be large.

    Kind regards and seasonal greetings!

    CL


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